Comments for News Design School

Comment on Do people really care about newspaper design? by Bob

Bob — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:02:01 +0000

Hey Geoff: Good points. I think what I am struggling with is that I think most people don’t understand and appreciate good design — and I am including journalists and publishers in this group. I also believe that overall and in most cases, design still doesn’t sell papers, or perhaps enough MORE papers to justify the spending that good newspaper design requires. The Globe and Mail may be an exception. But we cannot separate the variables of the glossy paper from the design from the reputation of the newspaper, and so on. So we really don’t know which is causing the effect.

And I still don’t think good design alone sells magazines of newspapers. If it did, we would treat them more like coffee table pieces with an extended shelf life. I toss my paper into the recycle pile the day of publication; magazines last a bit longer. That is, unless the content needs saving and filing away or clipping and mailing.

Even though design may be queen, content is still king.

Comment on Do people really care about newspaper design? by Geoff

Geoff — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:05:54 +0000

I disagree Bob. I think good design does sell papers in the same way good design sells magazines.

Again, I come from Canada. If you walk up to a newsstand you’ll see five or six papers. Your local Black Press, your regional Post Media Newsgroup (or two, or three, We’ve got the Province and The Vancouver Sun), The National Post and the Globe and Mail.

Well, You might see a National Post and Globe and Mail. They usually sell out the fastest. And while they are the two national papers, they’re also the two prettiest. Both have established designers and structure, they’re great to look at, but the Globe and Mail is the one that blows you away. Glossy white paper, big photos above the fold. It’s the paper that’s gone the fastest, since their redesign they’ve seen circulation increase 5-10% (The National Post is on the downturn.

I think design matters, but it’s not tangible. It’s about what readers notice on the page, what they pick up on. If you can explain “entry points”, you can turn it into “pickup”, which can translate into “money.” We all know the Corporate Mothership cares about that stuff.

On learning print/web, there are big differeneces. You can’t typeset nearly as tight on web, hyphenating hurts you even more, it’s a different animal. Learn both though, both can influence the other in a positive way.

Comment on Do people really care about newspaper design? by Bob

Bob — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:12:23 +0000

Thanks for the comment Johnny. The research in newspaper design is a little light, compared to research in other areas. I think it’s because there are few set standards of design: good design is too much in the eye of the beholder.

I believe the increased bad design is because the corporate Mother Ship for many newspapers realizes good design doesn’t sell more papers, so why invest in it? It is rather like editing, which also has gotten worse industry-wide in recent years. And in truth, I don’t think readers care that much for good design, so maybe it doesn’t really matter. They just want their “news” cheap and easy to read.

No, I don’t think students would gain from a comparison of print and web design. The standards of typography and white space and such are true no matter where they are applied. But in terms of layout, there’s not much to compare.

Have you looked at Williams’ The Non-Designer’s Design Handbook? Good basics.

Comment on Do people really care about newspaper design? by Johnny

Johnny — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:15:56 +0000

As a mature student in career transition who is trying to more readily grasp design basics for print news, it would be helpful to see or read about empirical evidence where common design errors touch the bottom line. This way I understand the rule but also understand why it is a rule. Entropy or paradigm shift, I presume readers are the ultimate judges of what works and what does not. Of course, I acknowledge in some areas there is not sufficient competition in print news to drive better design so the internet may become competition by default. Could this be root cause for your perception of increasingly bad design? Is it valid for students to compare print design standards with web media standards?

Comment on What works, what doesn't by Calaveracafe

Calaveracafe — Tue, 24 May 2011 14:11:08 +0000

Well, I would not call the Gazette’s logo something “cool”… eventually, it could be seen as something “chill”, once agreed it looks like the center of a beer label.

On the other hand, I kinda liked the general implant of the graphic divisions… the center, with the column on each side and a main vertical block element.
Also the bottom horizontal block sounds to work properly. It seems solid enough to mantain the equilibrium of the upper side.
Nothing to say about the text… it needs, IMHO, some 15s minutes of hard justifying job.

Liked the clean style of T-U, but the structure abused a bit of the 0.5pt lines… and, still IMHO, when a main picture risks to be treated that way (small title, unaligned description, HUGE credits and bad pshop post-production) it’s better neither to put that at work.